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Lord Beorn

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PostSubject: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:05 am

Just notifying the party faithful that we have begun to enact change. As laid out here [Only admins are allowed to see this link] and here [Only admins are allowed to see this link]

I have proposed and got past two laws [Only admins are allowed to see this link]
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these lowered VAT tax on weapons and food to 10%. I see this as the beginning of the fulfillment of are party goals and shows people that UPC actually means what it says
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Ardikus
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:14 am

Did you open a forum discussion on it first and have a vote there?
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Toad22

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:15 am

YOU IDIOT. Well I guess let's just ignore the Military platform. There goes eCanada's funding. YOU IDIOT!
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Ardikus
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:16 am

Also ^

We support MU funding, you screwed over one section for a less important one.
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:16 am

:facepalm:

I believe that while in congress you have to first propose it on the forums where they discuss for 24-48 hours, hold a forum vote and once that's passed you can start an ingame vote. I believe that there is roughly a 72 hour punishment for failing to abide to this rule, by the judgement of the speaker.

EDIT i checked the forums and didn't see a vote, hopefully the speaker can message everyone that this is an illegal motion.

I was a bit surprised that 18 congress members supported it, coalition want to screw us over or other stuff?
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Lord Beorn

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:15 am

ha, I did a forum discussion, cant rely on the speaker (who is trying to poach are members) to hold a vote. Calm down people, not that big of deal. This will be a good thing
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:58 pm

You didn't follow Basic Congress Procedures.

Thats a no no.
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Lord Beorn

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:48 pm

congress procedure is there for those who want to follow it to to T. I followed most of the procedure but due to time restraints and a non present speaker I decided to act.

On another note who particpicted in a poaching votes war between UPC and Clan Wolf yesterday?
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Lord Julian Moretti

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:24 pm

Dictatorial power grab anyone?

*sniff sniff* Does anyone else smell a Nazism????
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jefflav

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:09 pm

Okay boys give the guy a break ! We all make these mistakes ! As I have also made some like this lol ! but we shouldn't panic ! I seen some statistics that a former president as said in-game

Addy Lawrence said :

Two days into eCan VAT change.

VAT has dropped 50% from 20% to 10%

Daily tax revenues have dropped 35% from $9700 to $6300.

He also commented on this post :

Tax revenue is much more efficient in eCan, the only question is will volume increase.

The implied market size @ 20% was $49,000 in turnover each day, since the change it has averaged $63,000. Hopefully it continues to grow.

and somebody also commented :

this is already really good, it is hard to expect revenue to increase that much, as we are wiped and the only market base is canadian
citizens.

Your thoughts ?
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Ardikus
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:22 pm

Doesn't matter, still didn't follow the Forum Rules. They aren't optional.

Also, next time you're a congress member and make a proposal and get it through without asking the rest of the party about it here and having it discussed thoroughly here and on the eCanadian forums, its yours, don't connect the party to something you did on your own, and this is exactly that.
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jefflav

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:31 pm

Ardikus wrote:
Doesn't matter, still didn't follow the Forum Rules. They aren't optional.

Also, next time you're a congress member and make a proposal and get it through without asking the rest of the party about it here and having it discussed thoroughly here and on the eCanadian forums, its yours, don't connect the party to something you did on your own, and this is exactly that.


I still gotta agree on all this though ! Even though i said it's just a mistake Lord Beorn next time follow the rules because it can give you a bad reputation Arrow trust me I know I made stupid mistake like that my 1st time in Congress but mine didn't go through lol ohh well ...


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Lord Beorn

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:03 pm

nah, I feel it is good for the party. I should of had discussion here but there was not much time for it.

Ardikus if you want to follow some congress forum rules fanatically be my guest. I operate differently though and can improvise, by the way I still have not heard back from the speaker of congress about any wrong doing so how about you let him enforce congress procedure and stay out of it.

And Julian what are you talking about Nazism for?
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:15 pm

You made me your VP on the Party Page Beorn, its my job to tell you what you're doing wrong.

For starters: Rules are not guidelines, doing your own thing is what gets you kicked out.

If you want to do things the wrong way, go against the Party Platform and Make Propositions without letting the Party know, credit them solely to yourself, and take the blame on your own if shit hits the fan, don't drag the Party under the bus with you.
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Lord Beorn

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:46 pm

Most of what you have attributed to me is not very accurate or is at the very least very speculative. I do not think I'm dragging the party under the bus. These tax cuts are a good thing and The CP even wanted them. I did not go against party platform as are platform said we stood for low/moderate tax.

I know the congress forum procedure and it can be pushed when needed. Stop telling em I broke forum rules, leave that to the people who are in charge of enforcing them.
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:04 pm

Beorn, all eCanadians are trusted to enforce our rules. I am well within my rights to talk about it.

You don't Think you dragged the party under the bus. You said that the UPC lowered the VAT, false, YOU lowered the VAT, the rest of us weren't involved as you didn't ask our opinion.

You did not follow the Party Platform 100%, you sacrificed MU Funding, which is much more important than lower taxes. Screwing with the Military Module isn't a smart idea.

Frankly, I don't care about if the tax cuts are good or not, you still made multiple mistakes in bringing them about, didn't communicate with Congress or the Party effectively while doing it and then insulted a Party Member based on his age because he didn't like what you did.

You made a bad decision, stop trying to deny it, man up, and get on with not ever doing it again.
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Lord Beorn

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:19 pm

haha, I followed the party platform 100%, by lowering taxes I might just have helped the funding of the MU (we shall see). Your talking like this 10% change will destroy eCanada (it is wiped out now).

It may have slipped my mind to bring it up to the UPC party but I brought it up adequately enough in the congress message feed and in the forums, good enough that it got passed at least.

The thing about toad and his age was not really an insult on his age, it was that he thinks he acts mature yet he does childish insults against me in public multiple times and also I know that he does not like people bringing up his age and linking it to immaturity.

I did not make a bad decision, stop trying to make everyone think I did, sure I could of gone about my decision a bit better within the party but it was not a bad proposal.


Last edited by Lord Beorn on Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jefflav

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:33 pm

How old is toad ?
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Ardikus
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:16 pm

Toad is more mature than me Razz


Quote :
also I know that he does not like people bringing up his age and linking it to immaturity.

So you acknowledge that you knew previously he wouldn't like it, and then you did it in spite of that just because? That is called being rude.

Also, you did make a bad decision, a good decision would have been to Follow the Congress Rules, and Bring up your idea with the Party before going ahead with it.

Bad Decision =/= Bad Result

If your VAT change were to make us all millionaires, it wouldn't change the fact that you proposed it wrong in more than 3 ways, which made it a bad decision on your part.

So yes, it may be showing positive results, but you still did it on your own, so say its your own, if you want UPC to be involved, involve us.
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Lord Beorn

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:42 pm

yeah I have come to realize that you are quite biased towards Toad. Of course I knew he would not like it that is why I wrote it silly. As for it being Rude, you must be blind to what he has said about me. Because of your biased and you have proved that you are narrow sighted in your view then I;m afraid I must let you go from the VP position.

Also who made the congress forum rules? why should every one abide by them? I think they are stiff rules that are not always practical. Explore a bit Ardikus jeez. You seem to fail to grasp that my good decision that I was referring to was my tax proposal changes. I had already acknowledged that I could have brought it to the parties attention and debated it before but it was part of are platform and that is separate from my tax decision.
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:03 am

I was never your VP in the first place Beorn, you just put me under that title because people know me better than they know you. If you want to throw down over politics, I have the advantage of actually following the rules. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean you can just toss them aside, like you have pointed out you did.

Quote :
Also who made the congress forum rules? why should every one abide by them?

eCanada made the Congress Forum Rules, and you should abide by them because they are Rules of eCanada. There shouldn't be need for any further explanation, we live in a structured society within the game, so we follow the rules.

And debating sharing your plans with us... you are a congressman, and you claim one of UPC make, which means you work towards the goals of the party, which tends to be easier when you actually ask for the opinion of the party members instead of saying "Oh, Lower VAT is on the Party Platform, I'm going to go propose that".

And in response to the following:
Quote :
As for it being Rude, you must be blind to what he has said about me.

The fact that he was rude to you does not give you the right to be rude to him in return. Try being mature and walk away from insults instead of being just as bad as the person you are having the fight with.

I'm afraid in this Debate we are having, you aren't faring so well. You were insulted by a Party Member for something you did without consulting anyone, a move that could have and still has the potential to blow up in our faces, so in return you removed his Party Title and insulted him back, going for a sensitive topic to get in a cheap shot. You got in a debate with me, and because I stick to my guns and my opinion is firm on you making a bad decision that triggered Toad's response, so in return you take away my party title, and try to insult me by saying I am biased, narrow minded, and lets not forget our in game discussion where you insult me further:

Quote :
You must not have fully devolved brain wise yet so I will let your silly responses pass
and
Quote :
?, I'm beginning to question your reading/looking abilities.

So, lets do a little score check:

I hold my ground in a Debate against you, so you resort to insults and removing a title..
Toad insults you as a result of something you did, so you insult him back and remove his title.

If we're still on the subject of Maturity, let me be the first one to congratulate you on responding to insults and a debate in a similar fashion to a little kid.

Well done, you have successfully gotten nowhere with resolving either problem, and have treated two party members with disrespect.

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Lord Beorn

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:23 am

this is a game and I don't see the need to follow every rule set in the forums of congress. Also you just assume everyone should follow them but the second biggest party stands against these rules.

I have repeatedly said I could of done better as regards to bringing up the proposal to UPC, you seems to like beating a dead horse. Though as voted by the members to lower/modest Vat then it was fair to assume that most would agree with it.

Think about what I say, just don't come it from one way.


Quote:
As for it being Rude, you must be blind to what he has said about me.

you read that wrong, I meant that my rudeness has been much less abrasive then his brutish name calling.

I like how you say I'm not doing good in this "debate" but you are my opposition in this "debate" so your statement is both subjective and meaningless. I can say the same thing, Ardikus you are not faring well in this "debate" against me.

Ardikus you are a level headed individual, just wish I could say the same to young Toady.

It makes me laugh how much writing I have done with you today over an act that was not even yours to defend over a move that took place in a free browser game
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Ardikus
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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:46 am

Quote :
Ardikus you are not faring well in this "debate" against me.

I'd love to see you actually back up such a statement like I have. Its easy to say I'm not faring well, but a smart individual provides facts to support what they say.

Quote :
you read that wrong, I meant that my rudeness has been much less abrasive then his brutish name calling.

You must have read my response wrong, I never said anything about the abrasiveness of the insults, the mere fact that you retaliated with insults of your own if what I called you out on, those who can walk away from name calling instead of trying to get back at the person like you did generally can be attributed a higher level of maturity.

Quote :
Ardikus you are a level headed individual, just wish I could say the same to young Toady.
Calling him Young? You do realize using his age to try and make any statement against me is just going to smack you in the face, you can't blame things on the age of somebody after saying that a younger person is the opposite. Therefore, calling me Level Headed and then adding in a reference to Toad's age as a way of reasoning your calling him someone who lacks a level head shows that you have no good reasons to believe he isn't level headed. A level headed mind is allowed to blow off steam, as long as it doesn't fall over.

Quote :
It makes me laugh how much writing I have done with you today over an act that was not even yours to defend over a move that took place in a free browser game

I stand for Toad because he and I share a similar view on the topic of your decision, and telling me something isn't mine to defend? I can defend whatever act I feel like defending, if you don't want my opinion, then don't put the problem somewhere I will see it and comment.

Its a game, yep, that involves politics. This brings up room for debates like this, and hell, debates are extremely fun to get into. It gives you something to focus on and a chance to build your opinion and find proof to defend and reinforce it with. If we're going to share different opinions than others in the game, why shouldn't we have some fun while we're at it. Just look at Homer and I having a shout War for advertising our two parties, MDP and UPC, for the election, as we fought for the #3 spot in the vote totals.

Competition, Debate, Rivalry. Without these, Politics is boring.
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Lord Julian Moretti

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:05 am

*Starts to play Star Trek Kirk vs Spock Battle Music*

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Lord Beorn

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PostSubject: Re: Lowering VAT on food and weapons.   Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:30 pm

"Ardikus you are not faring well in this "debate" against me."


"I'd love to see you actually back up such a statement like I have. Its easy to say I'm not faring well, but a smart individual provides facts to support what they say."


Once again you have missed what I was trying to say. I said that to show that just because one of us says the other is losing the debate that it is not true and is meaningless as who are we to cast judgment on something we are both heavily involved in?
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